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There was a discussion in the “Sunday night DIHL games?” topic recently about how to improve our access to ice time.
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.dunedinicehockey.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15[/url:2it51ptp]
One of the suggestions was to build an inline hockey rink to give players the option to practise their puck handling and generally keep fit while leaving the ice rink for more serious practises. There are a number of advantages to this but it would be a major undertaking and cost a very large amount of money, perhaps over $200,000.
An alternative, which I recently discovered is being organised by Phil Pielak-Jones, is the addition of a shooting gallery behind the main grandstand of the Dunedin Ice Stadium. The only modifications necessary are the addition of some new walls to prevent damage to some of the refrigeration systems and existing walls up there. This however would only allow for shooting practise and would require some sort of surface to be put down to allow for using skates whilst shooting as there is currently only an abrasive concrete floor.
Now for the reason for this new topic … there is a type of plastic tiles which are available which can be used as a synthetic ice surface. Regular ice hockey skates are used on them and they behave very similar to real ice, including being able to hockey stop, shoot, puck handle etc. much the same as on real ice. They apparently take a little getting used to but are supposedly a very good tool for training purposes. I talked to someone recently who has played hockey at an extremely high level and had experience skating on these rinks as part of their training and highly recommended them. If a synthetic rink was built we could use it for puck handling drills, shooting practise and resistance training (bungy cord round waste while skating) as well as for simple passing drills and so forth. The cost should be minimal and would give us an opportunity to train even when the rink is unavailable or there are insufficient players to justify booking the entire ice rink.
There are a number of websites advertising these surfaces, here are some examples:
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.coldproducts.com/ezglide.php[/url:2it51ptp]
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.kwikrink.com/[/url:2it51ptp]
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.n-ice.net[/url:2it51ptp]
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.syntheticiceusa.com/[/url:2it51ptp]
[url:2it51ptp]http://www.vikingice.com/[/url:2it51ptp]
[url:2it51ptp]http://superglideskating.com/[/url:2it51ptp]From what I’ve read, we wouldn’t want to use square edged panels which are cheaper than panels which clip together as the square edged panels need to be individually anchored to the ground which is a little tricky when you’re trying to bolt them to concrete. A quick calculation of Kwickrink.com’s prices showed that we could get a 6x4m rink (without square edged panels) for ~NZ$3,000. I’m not sure exactly how much room is up in the area intended for the shot zone but a bigger rink could probably be laid down, a 12x8m rink would cost ~NZ$12,000. That’s still a hell of a lot cheaper than building an entire inline hockey rink.
Just an idea, but something I think we should seriously look at. Some opinions on the concept would be much appreciated though and if people think this is a viable project then I might get some more accurate costings and prepare a proposal for the DIHA committee.
I have heard of this stuff too, however, I dont see how it works.
If you can use normal ice skates on it and can hockeystop etc, then how do u repair it. Im assuming that a hockey stop would damage the surface in some way, so how is it maintained??Ryan cruelly deleted my intelligent and insightful post about off-ice area vs inline hockey rink. Boo! Hiss!
Stefan, I think it’s the same as that mat SK8 has in the shop. I believe you don’t maintain it, it just eventually degrades and gets worse quality as it gets scratched.
I’m curious as to how it affects your skate blades – does it make them go blunt faster?
Nup, they apparently get better the more they’re used! Some of the companies guarantee them to last atleast 10 years with heavy use. A slippery spray is applied monthly which keeps the friction to a minimum. I guess if it isn’t applied regularly then the surface may wear out faster but I’m not sure. I’ll be in touch with Jenel Bode in a week or so, she has some experience with these things and hopefully will be able to fill me in on some of the details.
There’s a whole bunch of different surface types available and I have no idea which is best, hopefully I’ll be able to get some contacts with people who have installed them/used them heavily and can pass on their experiences.
The surfaces don’t cause any significant wear on your skate blades AFAIK. Just like skating on a hard plastic chopping board smeared with lube.
FYI, I’ve sent an email to an acquaintance of mine in Canada (not Jenel) who runs a large hockey school. I asked for any contacts with facilities/people who have experience installing/using synthetic ice surfaces. Hopefully I’ll be able to get some more reliable information this way rather than relying on companies advertising information which seems to claim that their system is the greatest gift to mankind and is even better than real ice (which I assume is a load of bollocks).
I did a quick and extremely crude measurement of the area behind the grandstands tonight. The space available for a rink is ~16x5m with no space to spare. That gives a total area of 80m2 which based on my crude cost estimates above would cost ~NZ$10,000. This would give a suitable area for basic shooing practise, but also room to jam a bunch of people on there for doing passing drills or whatever other things could be practised on a small rink. In particular, drills could be run which would involve actually skating with a puck, turning etc. which wouldn’t be possible with a simple shot zone.
The more I think about this the more I like the idea, there’s a whole fleet of drills which are possible and would allow players to spend far longer practicing basic skills than is possible with the use of a full ice rink.
The theoretical cost of NZ$10,000 I’ve got above is a very rough estimate, but seems achievable, maybe not this year but definitely in the future. The cost of walls etc. would of course be on top of that. I’ll keep doing some more research and see what information I can dredge up.
As an interim solution, the original plan which Phil had of a simple shot zone with no synthetic ice surface could be used with inline skates instead of ice skates for drills, although this isn’t optimal for an ice hockey practise area.
Ryan,
Okay, some bad news and confirmation of what Stefan and Kyle suggested:
http://groups.google.co.nz/group/rec.sp … eb906370d9
http://groups.google.co.nz/group/rec.sp … b360c319a8I found these courtesy of Clive Murphie of the Aardwolfs Ice Hockey Club in Christchurch – thanks Clive
” title=”Smiley” /> There’s also a bunch more older comments in Google groups if you go looking.Basically the gist is that your skates will blunten mega quick, plus it’s slow (unsurprising) and hard to skate on. There are also issues with getting plastic filings and oil stuck to you when you fall over.
Perhaps a better option may be to have an ice court surface (special roller arena floor) which would allow for using ice pucks and would cost significantly less but couldn’t be skated on with ice skates – it could be used with ice skates (skate guards on) but not for actually skating. That way the area could still be used for drills including passing etc. and would be ideally suited for practising with roller hockey skates. For those who don’t know, Ice Courts are an extremely low friction surface which allows the puck to glide over it very quickly but still gives plenty of grip unlike the synthetic ice surfaces. The cost of an ice court (AFAIK) is something like $50,000 for a full sized rink, so an 80m2 rink would cost around ~$2300 in theory (plus walls etc.).
Some info. about Ice courts are available here:
http://icecourt.com/icecourtexxess/technical_info.html
I’ve talked extensively to players who have used these rinks in the past and they’re quite popular, not a gimmick or anything despite some of the strange advertising on their site.Ryan,
Why not just paint the concrete up there and save yourself $9,900? Use an inline surface and pucks. For shooting there’s almost no difference at all. The goalies might have to use different pads to avoid their ice pads getting munted, but they might have to do that for the plastic court surface a’how.
Look I am just spitballing here, but what are the logistics of extending the cooling pipes, if they run up there anyway, just a bit and building a mini ice surface up there.
We could maintain it with those we lawnmower thingys the curlers have.
Then instead of simulating ice we would have ice, woopee."Kyle":1c946vn5 wrote:Why not just paint the concrete up there and save yourself $9,900?[/quote:1c946vn5]Coz painted concrete is too grippy for ice pucks, they’ll flip and roll something wicked. I think a better option than painting the surface would be to polish the concrete, that would be much more slippy than a painted surface, I’m not sure how much that could cost but probably cheaper than my Ice Court idea.
"Kyle":1c946vn5 wrote:Use an inline surface and pucks.[/quote:1c946vn5]Well an Ice Court is an inline surface and inline pucks aren’t the best model for an ice puck.
"Kyle":1c946vn5 wrote:For shooting there’s almost no difference at all. The goalies might have to use different pads to avoid their ice pads getting munted, but they might have to do that for the plastic court surface a’how.[/quote:1c946vn5]Nope, ice pads should be no problem on an Ice Court, but they would be on concrete or a painted surface. Polished concrete would be marginal I think, but some duct taping over important areas would probably be good enough to prevent any damage.
Ryan,
Hey i dont think these special surfaces are the best idea, I fully agree with kyle!!
Put a good sportscourt surface down and play inline hockey! Now this is not just cheap advertising, but we have superskills training balls at SK8 which have been specifically designed, and are the best i believe; at replicating the feel of an ice puck. The ball strikes the stick blade at the exact point that an ice puck would, and they are weighted so that they move at a similar speed to a puck on ice. The weight when shooting is also very alike to that of an ice puck. I have one myself and they are the best thing I have ever trained with, and believe me I have tried everything, golf balls, pool balls, tennis balls, and even an array of fruit.
Why not use a few of these and play up there, whether its a good surface or not, everyone has, or can get hold of; some inlines, and we have free (im guessing) practice time!! Id be fully keen to do this, as I have worn through stick blades all summer on the concrete!! Any relatively smooth surface would be a luxury, even if there was a bunch of us just passing the ball round or whatever, this would be great for training!! There are stairs there to run, and the beach could be used for a training session. Or perhaps im getting carried away here!?
Palmerston North rink is a great rink, although it is not the best, those kind of tiles would be great upstairs at the rink. The palmerston club got the tiles for approx. $6 a tile for the whole rink, in total I dont know what that adds to, as I am a P.E. student, but im guessing it would be less than 10K. So mabye contact them and see where they got them from??
If not, just paint the floor and play hockey! it doesnt need to be a state of the art rink or anything, if people want to improve, they will train no matter what the training facilities are like, we just need the ok from neil or what ever.
Peace y’all,
STIFF"rookie#19":ij712k2t wrote:Hey i dont think these special surfaces are the best idea, I fully agree with kyle!!Put a good sportscourt surface down and play inline hockey![/quote:ij712k2t]
Why Sportcourt instead of Ice Court? AFAIK Ice Courts are becoming popular than Sport Courts these days due to the lower friction which seems more suitable for ice training since the ice puck should slide over it okay.
The rink in Palmerston North is not a Sport Court apparently but home built gerry rigged surface, both Sport Court and Ice Court are better – or atleast that’s what I’ve heard from some of the guys on the NZ team.
The Palmerston North type surface may be a much cheaper alternative though. Any idea how big each of those tiles they used are? $6 seems quite cheap.
Ryan,
From my memory, and Ryan knows how long it’s been, they were about a foot square each. So… 10 – 12 per square metre.
They ripped all sorts of layers of skin off when you dived though. I just about needed a skin graft after those 10 games.
Well my contact in Canada just got back to me! She asked one of her coaches for some advice on the issue and they’ve suggested an inline surface was a better option than a synthetic surface as well. The crazy thing is, the coach she asked actually knew me. It is Eric Mann! What a small world we live in!
For any of you who don’t know him, Eric Mann used to play here in Dunedin.
Ryan,
Hey dudes and dudesses,
Yea man the sportcourt would be by far the better option, the tiles i would estimate to be 250mmx250mm i dunno, mabye closer to 300mm?
Why i suggested contacting palmerston inline hockey, is basically because the Palmerston North club were looking at getting sportcourt specifically designed for hockey, but the rights to the design are owned by a north american company. They did not want to pay the patent or whatever its called, so they designed their own tiles which are very similar in design to the north american ones, but are square instead of triangular (which are the original N. A. design).Palmerston has had some problems with them but nothing major, and in my opinion these tiles are the most alike surface to ice that I have come across. There is practically no maintainence with them, and the puck slides extremely well, just like ice. I would fully recommend these tiles, we were going to get them in Napier at one stage and were sent a sample of them which we used to practice some skills on. They proved a very good surface.
No offence or anything, but this ice court thing doesnt make sense, I imagine there would be a whole lot more maintenance, and think about it: A razor sharp blade cutting into some plastic surface had got to do some serious damage!! I just cant see how this type of surface would work without a whole lot of maintenance we dont really want to put up with.
I fully agree with you on the fact that we need the closest thing we can get to ice, so that training is as effective and applicable to ice as possible. However any practice is good practice and the fundamentals are the same, if you can shoot top-shelf on an inline surface, chances are you can do this on ice as well!!Anyway peace and godbless 😉 ,
STIFF #19"rookie#19":2zgaw6mt wrote:No offence or anything, but this ice court thing doesnt make sense, I imagine there would be a whole lot more maintenance, and think about it: A razor sharp blade cutting into some plastic surface had got to do some serious damage!! I just cant see how this type of surface would work without a whole lot of maintenance we dont really want to put up with.
I fully agree with you on the fact that we need the closest thing we can get to ice, so that training is as effective and applicable to ice as possible. However any practice is good practice and the fundamentals are the same, if you can shoot top-shelf on an inline surface, chances are you can do this on ice as well!! [/quote:2zgaw6mt]Sorry, I obviously haven’t explained myself here. You’ve totally missed the point of what an Ice Court is.
An Ice Court [b:2zgaw6mt]IS[/b:2zgaw6mt] an [b:2zgaw6mt]INLINE HOCKEY RINK[/b:2zgaw6mt]. Synthetic ice is a different kettle of fish altogether and is in no way related to an Ice Court, they’re totally different beasts.
There are two major brands in inline hockey rink surfaces, Sport Court and Ice Court. They’re much the same, it’s just that Ice Courts are a newer design which apparently has a lower amount of friction rather than a Sport Court brand rink. They were used for the Worlds a year or so ago I think – I have a vague memory of John Thomsen telling me about them a while back.
But yeah, it’s possible that the Palmerston North design is a good option. Personally I didn’t like skating on it and most of the players I know that have played on Ice and Sport Courts thought that it was quite inferior to either of them. But it is apparently cheaper and available locally so is definitely an extremely good option to try out. Also, the problems with the Palmerston North rink were mainly to do with hockey stopping at high speed which was a nightmare as you skim the gaps in the plastic and just wipe out. Stopping at low speeds was a piece of cake though, even stopping at mediumish speeds was fine. However we’re never going to get up to a high speed in a tiny training rink so that’s not an issue anyway.
Ryan,
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