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"leftrightconfused":3tf2budd wrote:Have you spoken to Neil yet about your plans?
He will need to be put in the picture before any planning gets to far advanced[/quote:3tf2budd]I haven’t, but as far as I know Phil and Deanna have approached him and the concept is definitely okay. And yeah, Neil will need to be totally up to date. I’d just like to get everything organised first rather than going to him with some vague plan and no concrete ideas on how to do it. I’m also hoping that with everything else in place (nets, lighting, people power etc.) that it’ll be easier to convince someone to part with some building materials to stick a wall in there if necessary.
I’m not sure whether we’d need to pay to use such a facility or if it would be like the social/warm rooms which we can use for free. It would be nice to be able to build the thing with no financial support from the rink as that way we’d be less likely to need to pay or at least I’d expect the cost to be minimal. The area isn’t being used at the moment except to store a bunch of junk, so hopefully it will be free – but I would understand if there was a charge as we’d still be using a decent section of space which commercially would be worth quite a lot to rent.
On a a side issue, we’d presumably need to attach the netting to the floor via a block of wood. Block of wood (4×2 or similar) bolted to concrete (need concrete drill and some of those plastic thingies for sticking bolts into) and the nets could then be attached by screws or whatever to the wood. The wood would also act as the boards so the puck could be bounced off them, so for this reason it would be nice to either get some very big bits of wood (6×4 maybe?) or stick planks upright to the side of the blocks to lengthen the height of the boards.
Oh yeah, I have no idea how to wire up a fluorescent light, but apparently Sam Smith knows a bit about that type of thing so hopefully he’ll be happy to do that for us for free.
Ryan,
Here’s an incredibly crude diagram. If you convert the measurements in cm’s to m’s you’ll get a rough idea of the dimensions.
[img:wrqc05aa]http://www.dunedinicehockey.co.nz/temp/shootinggallerydiagram1.jpg[/img:wrqc05aa]
The thing that looks like a bar code is the goal.
The big fat lines are poles, the far wall is the bottom of the grandstand so it’s at quite a steep angle (~37o between the roof line and the floor). The cooling tower is behind it. There’s a pole in the way, so the rink can’t go right up to the cooling tower, there’d need to be a gap between it and the rink.
If we’re just using nets around the whole place, we’ll likely need big sponge pads around the poles, or someone may nail themselves on them on the way past.
The black line on the right is where the current wall and door is. But we may not need those so hopefully we’ll be able to bash them out.
[b:wrqc05aa]The measurements I made were:[/b:wrqc05aa]
Length of rink = 14.7m + 1.65m (if the wall was knocked out.)
Width of floor = 7.7m
Width of rink = 7.7m – ~3.1m = 4.6m (wider depending on how low we had the roofline/closeness of poles to your head)
Floor:roofline angle = ~37 degrees – judged by eye so not very accurate!
Cooling tower/air conditioner thingy = 2.33×3.86mThe effective rink width could be wider if the nets were angled outwards, ie: you’d need to duck to get into the corner (Kyle will have to kneel
” title=”Smiley” />)On looking at that cooling tower/air conditioner thingy, I reckon we could just cover the fins with some sort of cage and totally enclose the rink with nets. This should be a lot cheaper and easier than building a wall – possibly free if Graham can get the nets for us
” title=”Smiley” />The lighting up there is pretty crap, it’s two fluorescent lights up there at the moment, but there’s no guards over them and an extra light or two would be good. I can probably scam enough lights/guards for us though so that should be an easy fix.
I’ll email Hagen and see if he can source a guard for the cooling tower/air conditioner thingy (anyone know the actual name?). Then I’ll track down Neil and see what he thinks.
[b:wrqc05aa]So in a nutshell – my opinion on the best method of attack here is:
[/b:wrqc05aa] Knock out the existing wall (if we’re allowed)
Nets all round – no new wall
Get cage to protect the cooling thingy
Get some wood/planks to attach to the concrete
Borrow some tools – maybe from James Van Leeuwen (concrete drill etc.)
Get some of bolts and those plastic plug thingamagigs for them into concrete
Install some more fluorescent lights and put guards over the existing ones.
Leave surface as is for the mean time – perhaps upgrade later
Check that we’re actually allowed to do all this and in particular run it by the DIHA and Neil.
Cost, hopefully zero” title=”Smiley” /> As long as we can find some wood, tools and volunteers.Ryan,
There are also… y’know, laws to consider. Don’t you need a registered electrician to install lights, and guarantee that we won’t burn the stadium down? The city council might also need to approve the work, which, even if Graham was to help with the plans, would still cost… a few hundred dollars I’m guessing. And they might need to inspect it afterwards.
I’m no expert on these things, especially given that it’s a commercial and not a residential building.
I presume on your drawing where you have what looks like 4.99 cm, you mean 4.99 metres?
If it’s a shooting gallery, then no net is going to be an adequate replacement for a wall. Nets degrade, do so less obviously (ie, small holes that people might hit occasionally), and if there’s a few hundred slap shots going into it every day, then no net is going to last that long.
You should talk to Paul. I’d imagine he wouldn’t find it difficult to get a thousand dollars from somewhere to do the off ice area. Why do it on the cheap when fundraising and doing it properly won’t cost us any more?
"Kyle":3h14irs5 wrote:Don’t you need a registered electrician to install lights, and guarantee that we won’t burn the stadium down?[/quote:3h14irs5]It was an electrician who recommended I got Sammy to do it so I assume there’s no problem with that, if there is, then I’ll just ask the electrician nicely for a favour.
"Kyle":3h14irs5 wrote:The city council might also need to approve the work, which, even if Graham was to help with the plans, would still cost… a few hundred dollars I’m guessing. And they might need to inspect it afterwards.[/quote:3h14irs5]I’m no expert either, but I assumed that putting up nets wouldn’t count as building anything per se. Even if a wall was built, it would be more of a barrier, rather than a wall so perhaps wouldn’t need to be defined as such – although that’s probably stretching the law a little too far!
"Kyle":3h14irs5 wrote:I presume on your drawing where you have what looks like 4.99 cm, you mean 4.99 metres?[/quote:3h14irs5]Yep, and like I said in the post above, they’re not accurate by any means, the more accurate numbers are written in the post. The numbers in cm’s were just what OpenOfficeDraw added when I drew it out, I have no idea how to convert them to m’s in the program, plus they program would only do them accurate to around 50cm or so. They’re purely there as a very rough guide.
"Kyle":3h14irs5 wrote:If it’s a shooting gallery, then no net is going to be an adequate replacement for a wall. Nets degrade, do so less obviously (ie, small holes that people might hit occasionally), and if there’s a few hundred slap shots going into it every day, then no net is going to last that long.[/quote:3h14irs5]Well if the existing wall was left there, then there’s no problem with hitting people. All that would be needed I think would be a shield for the cooling tower. In theory the pucks may be able to go over the top of the cooling tower so that is possibly a problem I guess. Indoor cricket centers use netting to keep the balls in and they don’t seem to have any issues with that method and I’m assuming that hockey pucks would be about the same. The main problem with the nets I suspect will be people crashing into them as that would put quite a lot more force onto them than the puck would.
"Kyle":3h14irs5 wrote:You should talk to Paul. I’d imagine he wouldn’t find it difficult to get a thousand dollars from somewhere to do the off ice area. Why do it on the cheap when fundraising and doing it properly won’t cost us any more?[/quote:3h14irs5]The other flip side of the coin … why use fundraising money when we can do it for free? I’d rather see something built immediately and upgraded later (presumably with fundraised money), atleast we can use it in the mean time.
Thanks for all the opinions guys, keep them flowing
” title=”Smiley” /> Feel free to pipe in with any opinions/expert advice.Hopefully I’ll hear back from Hagen soon and then I’ll write up some sort of proposal and run it by Neil. Then (assuming Neil is fine with it) I’ll send it to the DIHA and see what the committee thinks.
Ryan,
If the things you’re talking about aren’t structural in nature and don’t pose a serious health and safety risk, then I don’t see why the DCC even need to know, but the best thing to do about the possible planning permission requirements is to call up the DCC and ask.
"Ryan":bedcpcic wrote:"Kyle":bedcpcic wrote:If it’s a shooting gallery, then no net is going to be an adequate replacement for a wall. Nets degrade, do so less obviously (ie, small holes that people might hit occasionally), and if there’s a few hundred slap shots going into it every day, then no net is going to last that long.[/quote:bedcpcic]Well if the existing wall was left there, then there’s no problem with hitting people. All that would be needed I think would be a shield for the cooling tower. In theory the pucks may be able to go over the top of the cooling tower so that is possibly a problem I guess. Indoor cricket centers use netting to keep the balls in and they don’t seem to have any issues with that method and I’m assuming that hockey pucks would be about the same. The main problem with the nets I suspect will be people crashing into them as that would put quite a lot more force onto them than the puck would.[/quote:bedcpcic]
Yeah, but the use that indoor cricket netting gets, where a ball is hit against it a few times each game, compared to netting behind a hockey goal where someone is practising slapshots… And I don’t know how fast cricket balls get hit, but I’d presume hockey pucks are a fair bit faster, and they’re shaped more to damage netting.
Anyway, I guess your netting would only need to be as strong as the netting in a hockey goal. Those goal nets seem to stand up to plenty of shots.
The netting that the inline hockey club however put in their goals – I think it might have been fishing net stuff – that tore and got wrecked easily.
"Ryan":bedcpcic wrote:The other flip side of the coin … why use fundraising money when we can do it for free? I’d rather see something built immediately and upgraded later (presumably with fundraised money), atleast we can use it in the mean time.[/quote:bedcpcic]Well I guess if the eventual wall was to replace netting, you’d have gone to the effor t of buying and putting up nets, when they weren’t needed in the eventual finished unit.
I’m arguing for a bunch of things here, from the general rule of ‘better to see if it’s worth doing properly the first time rather than a hacked together job and then have to redo it properly later’. The whole ice rink was done that way – olympic size, professional boards and glass etc. Why shouldn’t the off-ice area go the same way? Should there be weights/gym area? What are the other needs of that area? Do they still store the Xmas show stuff up there?
There’s no clamouring for the players for it. Phil raised this almost a year ago and no one’s been pushing it until February this year.
"Kyle":1qb8v9ie wrote:Yeah, but the use that indoor cricket netting gets, where a ball is hit against it a few times each game, compared to netting behind a hockey goal where someone is practising slapshots… And I don’t know how fast cricket balls get hit, but I’d presume hockey pucks are a fair bit faster, and they’re shaped more to damage netting.[/quote:1qb8v9ie]
[quote:1qb8v9ie]Well I guess if the eventual wall was to replace netting, you’d have gone to the effor t of buying and putting up nets, when they weren’t needed in the eventual finished unit.[/quote:1qb8v9ie]True, but if it doesn’t matter if the puck goes through the nets then it shouldn’t be a problem, ie: if the only thing behind the net is a protected cooling thingamabob.
[quote:1qb8v9ie]Should there be weights/gym area? What are the other needs of that area? Do they still store the Xmas show stuff up there?[/quote:1qb8v9ie]
Yes, that’s already being planned too, but not by me. There’s already some gym equipment up there for the purpose. The Xmas stuff I assume can be moved elsewhere or Deanna wouldn’t be behind the project. As far as I know the area is set aside at this stage for this purpose, Deanna said they had the go ahead for it, or at least that’s how I understood.
[quote:1qb8v9ie]There’s no clamouring for the players for it. Phil raised this almost a year ago and no one’s been pushing it until February this year.[/quote:1qb8v9ie]
I suspect no one is aware of it hence no one pushing for it, I had no idea of that plan till Phil showed me a week or so ago, most of the players I’ve shown the area think it’s great idea, well, that’s three so far – but 3/3 isn’t bad.
My question would be: Do we really need anything more than a netted in area? Assuming here that it would be okay not to have a barrier behind the goal – which I’m still not sure of. If someone wanted to add a fancy surface later that wouldn’t be a problem, just unbolt the nets, stick down the surface and re-attach the nets. I’m really not sure walls are of any use, apart from to keep pucks in. This is just a shooting/passing area, not somewhere to play games or anything like that so it doesn’t exactly need to be an exotic glassed in, plastic boarded thing.
Ryan,
Im thinking nets are the go.
A) They do last a long time and we can double them up if need be
theres no bloody great thumping noise of pucks crashing into walls, Nets go up quick and come down quick, its probably important not to interupt the flow of air into the air conditioning unit with a solid wall, though we could have a smaller wall with bounce back capabilities.
Whatever we, do dont bother with the DCC
they will only hinder and complicate matters. Its best that they are kept out of the picture. Perhaps we could get funding for some windows?"leftrightconfused":3i19153b wrote:Perhaps we could get funding for some windows?[/quote:3i19153b]Sorry, you’ve lost me! What are the windows for?
Ryan,
[b:ebw66g9j]Update:[/b:ebw66g9j]
Neil has kindly agreed to provide some fencing he owns to protect the cooling tower thingy. Hans is going to weld it on for us. Graham is working on getting the nets for us and I’ll take my new lights along and try and rustle a few more up if possible – or at least some protective covers for the existing ones. Then all we need is wood which James has offered us and some tools, bolts etc. for attaching the netting etc. in to place, then we have 1x fully functional shooting gallery” title=”Smiley” /> Hans and Neil are both happy with the plan. I guess some more fancy stuff like a plastic shooting surface or special inline surface could be added, plus maybe the windows that Graham mentioned, but I’d like to see the main part done asap so we can start making use of it ” title=”Smiley” />Ryan,
[b:5gquqwfs]Update 2:[/b:5gquqwfs]
Hans is planning to weld the fencing on tomorrow. He’s also arranging wood to place at the bottom of the netting. I’ll be taking my light along tomorrow for fitting and I’ll track down a few more hopefully. Apparently I don’t need any with covers now though as Hans wants to put the lighting above the netting which will come over the top of the gallery as a roof to stop pucks coming out the top. Hans was also planning to put that green rubbery shit down, but I suggested that was [b:5gquqwfs]really[/b:5gquqwfs] bad plan since a lot of people (me included) want to use our inline skates up there and to practice puck handling on it (no good on rubber). We’ll also be helping move a bunch of junk tomorrow which is sitting in the way at the moment – old skates, paint and a whole pile of other trash which needs taken down the other end of the grandstand. Apparently there’s a bunch of other things which need done too and Hans is keen for a few extras to come help. So far I’ve got me, possibly Andy Noble if he’s not too busy and Bode said she might help too. Extra helpers would be much appreciated. I’m not sure when Hans is wanting us to turn up, but I’ll give him a call tomorrow and find out what the deal is. We’ve also got an [i:5gquqwfs]electrician[/i:5gquqwfs] lined up to do the wiring for the lights.Ryan,
[b:1k9je1tj]Update 3:[/b:1k9je1tj]
[list:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]Bode, Hans and myself cleared a bunch of crap from the area the shooting gallery will be in today.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]The figure skaters should have moved their stuff tonight or will be doing so tomorrow.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]Hans (with some help from me) welded up a whole bunch of caging to completely block off the cooling tower from pucks.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]We’re currently looking at installing some very professional looking dasher boards although we don’t have enough to go the whole way around the rink so they wont quite reach around the end we’ll be shooting from.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]The netting should have arrived tonight and it’ll be waiting to be tacked up.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]I tried getting hold of Andre van Leeweun today to ask him if he’d mind putting down some paint on to the concrete to make it look a little more professional and hopefully make the puck slide better.[/*:m:1k9je1tj]
[*:1k9je1tj]I need to get hold of our electrical person (and get more lights) to install some new lighting[/*:m:1k9je1tj][/list:u:1k9je1tj]So, the shooting gallery is well on track to being completed
” title=”Smiley” />On a side note, Bode contacted Marty Yewchuk (who I met a few years back) who runs a shooting gallery in Canada ([url:1k9je1tj]http://www.goalieshop.com/goaliedevelopment.htm[/url:1k9je1tj]).
He said the synthetic ice is a big no no and recommended training on inline skates with a Sport Court surface or any other plastic tiled inline hockey style surface. The shooting gallery he runs uses real ice.[img:1k9je1tj]http://www.goalieshop.com/newlayout/photos/gdcice_sm02.png[/img:1k9je1tj]
[size=9px]Here’s a pic of the shooting gallery run by Marty Yewchuk[/size]Ryan,
[b:38kzqhd9]Update:[/b:38kzqhd9]
[list:38kzqhd9]
[*:38kzqhd9]Bode and I put up some high tension wiring to support the netting and put the nets up along one side. We ran out of time to get the rest up though. Hopefully we’ll get the nets up soon though.[/*:m:38kzqhd9]
[*:38kzqhd9]James van Leeuwen is planning to do some bracing on the boards as they’re pretty wobbly as is and will be fitting something to pin the nets to them.[/*:m:38kzqhd9]
[*:38kzqhd9]I have the lights ready, I just need to get them to the rink. Our electrician is planning on installing them shortly – hopefully by the weekend.[/*:m:38kzqhd9]
[*:38kzqhd9]James or Hans (can’t remember which) will also be installing a new door and a lock on it to keep the public out.[/*:m:38kzqhd9]
[*:38kzqhd9]There’s a possibility of the floor being painted, but that’s not certain, depends if a few things fall into place or not.[/*:m:38kzqhd9][/list:u:38kzqhd9]Ryan,
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