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OK. How’d your team go this last two seasons Blake? Too many pansies in the team? I suspect it wasn’t a lack of desire to win that led to two wins over two seasons.
The reality is that winning games involves many factors that no one can control. Dunedin U13s have won the last 50 straight games in the southern region. We have the best group of kids by a long shot in any club. Every time we go on the ice we work hard to motivate the kids and play well, setting targets that are more than winning the game. Their last game of the season their goal was to help the members of the team that hadn’t gotten a goal all season score. Not only did they do that very well, they played their best individual and team hockey I saw all year. 23-0 final score, no shots on goal.
Our U16s have spent the last two seasons travelling to umpteen tournaments to play the same two teams. They always beat the combined Gore/Alex team, they always lose to the Queenstown team. The margins for each game tends to be 6 – 10 every time.
The past couple of seasons the Beasts played all through the southern region in SNC. They hardly won a game, but they played reasonable hockey and they represented the club well. They seemed to have a hell of a lot of fun.
In none of these teams is there any evidence that a lack of a desire to win holds the team back. Any time you give a kid an ice hockey top with the club’s name on it and put them on the ice, they’re going to skate hard. We work to appoint coaches with the brains to make intelligent decisions about how to approach a situation. When is a good time to give a backup goaltender ice time, when to put a third line on the ice, when to rest the best players, when to tell players to change their tactics to make a game about something other than winning, or more than winning, or indeed get something valuable out of a loss. These aren’t tactics that are exclusive to us, they’re used by amateur and professional sporting organisations all over the world.
In short, I didn’t put ‘winning games is important’ in the code because I think it’s redundant. It’s always the thing that people want to do most when they approach a sport. Reminding them of the other reasons why people play the game seemed to be more important. The code isn’t something that we’d smack players over the hand with after they came off the ice, telling them that they didn’t play for the love of the game enough, it’s about indicating to many kids, lots of whom hardly ever win a game in a season, and lots who hardly ever lose, that there’s other reasons to play, and play hard.
It’s also a recognition in the club that there will be teams like the Bullfrogs in the B DIHL, who haven’t looked like winning a game so far. I’d hope they’d still finish the DIHL having played hard, learnt to be better players, and enjoyed themselves, and that they’d come back for more next year.
Again, this sort of clause appears in a lot of international codes for slightly different reasons than we have here. Overseas its not uncommon for parents and other people associated with a player to push them to play a game they’re good at for reasons that aren’t about individual or team performances, or about winning. Then you get players playing for the scout in the stand rather than to play good hockey and win the game.
And I should point out a draw isn’t the same as a loss. A draw is one point, a loss is zero points.
I think at the end of the day no body cares about a code of conduct realistacilly, i know im not gonna life my life by it and sure as hell others arent either! Im guessing what your after is a more recognisable standards of accepted behaviour
if i wann ahva e a few ales before hockey so be it, thats fine, my choice but if im grossly intoxicated then it goes further
"Kyle":1dtu3j1m wrote:It’s also a recognition in the club that there will be teams like the Bullfrogs in the B DIHL, who haven’t looked like winning a game so far. I’d hope they’d still finish the DIHL having played hard, learnt to be better players, and enjoyed themselves, and that they’d come back for more next year.[/quote:1dtu3j1m]Ahem, we were just warming up. We decided to be nice on the other teams for the first half of the season so we didn’t demoralise them too much. We are aiming for total domination during the remainder of the season.
well that’s fantastic kyle, i should have said that winning is a huge part of the game and is very important. its why we get into competition, to win! i personally hate it when coaches tell me that as long as you have fun that’s all that matters. its not all that matters.
that’s what im getting at, its not all that matters, sure its important but its not all that competition is about.
in regards to my team, yea im just a crap coach and those guys often played to take the piss out of people not to win and boy does that piss people off! though they are playing awesome in this dihl and they are playing to win, not just to have fun. do you realise the difference in their state of play?(Yeah I meant Thunder when I said ‘your team’, not DIHL).
I don’t object to having something about winning in there, if someone can suggest a wording.
"thirteen":1cmytma8 wrote:… its why we get into competition, to win![/quote:1cmytma8]Don’t you want to win for enjoyment? In which case the current comment about playing for the enjoyment of the game might cover that already.
"Ryan":3p376yjh wrote:Don’t you want to win for enjoyment? In which case the current comment about playing for the enjoyment of the game might cover that already.
[/quote:3p376yjh]That’s (part of) the reason why its worded the way it is, rather than ‘have fun’, which would feel condescending to me. Sometimes hockey isn’t fun, though most often it is. Some people enjoy getting their butts kicked every game (I know Ryan has in the past), other people find that really despressing.
Just throwing a left field comment in for feedback perhaps the point regarding booze or drugs should be replaced with something that indicates that anybody whilst under the influence of booze or drugs who ruins the enjoyment of hockey for other people deserve to be electrocuted or publicly spanked by their grandmother or whatever. This puts responsibility on to the individuals behaviour and avoid issues surrounding proving alcahol/drug consumption.
1. Play hockey for a love of the game above all other things.
this one sounds odd. how about playing the game in the spirit of of good sportsmanship? The warm fuzzy feelings are personal to each player and can’t be dictated!(I’m coming to the discussion late so I might be repeating arguments already)
3. Learn the rules and strategies of ice hockey to increase their understanding of the game
this one I think does have a place with minors but not seniors. I think it should be reworded though to refer more to a willingness to listen to the coaches and general respect for the coaches
The parent behavior thing should be added I think. I haven’t actually seen too many abusive parents in NZ but its a big problem overseas in the bigger hockey communities. Parents actually killing other parents and death threats towards refs. (one idiot parent threatened a ref with death. The ref happened to be an off duty cop so during intermission, he called his buddies and had him arrested. It was classic)
Abusive parents put undue stress on the kid and it also affects other parents. I wouldn’t accept an abusive parent if I was coaching nor would I expect other parents to want to take their kids to a rink knowing they will be exposed to that! You lose many players if one abusive or loud mouth parent isn’t dealt with appropriately. Again, haven’t seen it here but might as well get a jump on it so the rule’s in place.
"Rhys M":2nw12ids wrote:I also think your being fairly unrealistic in thinking people will follow this, i can think of certain games where these guideline wont be followed at all, because the people dont care
[/quote:2nw12ids]Not following because not caring (or any other reason for that matter) offers DIHA the option of removing the offending person from DIHA sanctioned events depending on the nature of the infraction. That’s pretty much like any club/team with any sort of constitution.
I’ve done some editing and some changes based on a couple of things suggested here and a redo that Vince sent me. New drafts:
Code of Conduct ? Youth Players and Parents
Youth players are expected to meet the following standards of behaviour:
1. Play hockey for enjoyment above all other things.
2. Learn the rules of ice hockey, submitting to the rulings of officials without argument.
3. Be on time and properly equipped for all practices and games.
4. Aim for improvement in all aspects of their game.
5. Support their team and team members on and off the ice.
6. Respect opponents through good sportsmanship.
7. Respect coaches and listen to and follow their instructions.
8. Respect the rules of all sporting and other facilities.
9. Encourage others to play ice hockey through modeling and promotion of the sport.Players can have the following expectations:
1. Have fun on and off the ice.
2. Be able to ask questions and learn more about the game of ice hockey.
3. Have qualified coaching and develop as a player.Parents are expected to meet the following standards of behaviour:
1. Support players in their ice hockey, not forcing them to play, having unrealistic expectations of them, or condemning them for making mistakes.
2. Respect officials and submit to their rulings without argument. Encourage players to follow the rules and to resolve conflicts without resorting to hostility, abuse, or violence.
3. Communicate with team coaches and managers about a player’s availability and health.
4. Encourage and reward sportsmanship on the ice.
5. Provide a good example for fellow parents and players in their behaviour.
6. Respect coaches/managers and support their work. A parent’s primary job at games is to support their child and their team, parental help will only be allowed if it is asked for.Parents can have the following expectations:
1. Players to participate in a safe, supportive environment.
2. Players to have an opportunity to improve their ice hockey and play at a competitive level.
3. Be able to ask questions of the Association and its coaches and officials at an appropriate time and place.The Dunedin Ice Hockey Association has a zero tolerance policy towards:
1. Verbal abuse, physical abuse, fighting, or any other unsportsmanlike behaviour
2. ‘Hazing’ or other team or rookie initiation rituals.
3. Performance enhancing or illegal drug use.
4. Alcohol consumption by members under the age of eighteen.Any player, parent, coach or official who engages in this behaviour faces disciplinary consequences.
Code of Conduct ? Senior Players
Senior players are expected to meet the following standards of behaviour:
1. Play hockey for enjoyment above all other things.
2. Communicate with team coaches and managers about their availability and health.
3. Learn the rules of ice hockey, submitting to the rulings of officials without argument.
4. Be on time and properly equipped for all practices and games.
5. Aim for improvement in all aspects of their game.
6. Support their team and team members on and off the ice.
7. Respect opponents through good sportsmanship.
8. Respect coaches and listen to and follow their instructions.
9. Respect the rules of all sporting and other facilities.
10. Encourage others to play ice hockey through modeling and promotion of the sport.Players can have the following expectations:
1. Have fun on and off the ice.
2. Play in a safe, supportive environment.
3. Have qualified coaching and develop as a player.
4. Play the game at a competitive level.
5. Be able to ask questions and learn more about the game of ice hockey.
6. Be able to ask questions of the Association and its coaches and officials at an appropriate time and place.The Dunedin Ice Hockey Association has a zero tolerance policy towards:
1. Verbal abuse, physical abuse, fighting, or any other unsportsmanlike behaviour
2. ‘Hazing’ or other team or rookie initiation rituals.
3. Performance enhancing or illegal drug use.
4. Alcohol consumption by senior members immediately before or during on-ice activities.Any player, parent, coach or official who engages in this behaviour faces disciplinary consequences.
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