Forums › Forums › General chatter › SPLIT: Fighting in hockey (DIHL 2009)
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October 21, 2009 at 10:13 pm #14584AnonymousInactive
dont give me that, hes was proably combered on the ground!!!!
youre too fat and slow.October 21, 2009 at 10:14 pm #14585Canadiens FanMemberI’m a hockey parent and in principle a peaceful sort of guy. While I don’t like fighting in hockey particularly, the reality is that it happens, and I can sort of understand why.
My kids have been playing hockey in Canada and Australia, and the game is a lot more competitive there. In Australia, I remember the coach telling the kids to give the other guy a good hard punch when the ref isn’t looking. In Canada, the kids were told that cheap shots are ok as long as you can get away with it. I suspect Kiwis are far too polite as a people generally to go along with that sort of coaching philosophy, but I’m just reporting the strong competitive drive to win at all costs that I’ve seen elsewhere.
So, given the competitiveness of the game, the adrenalin, the fact that some players can get too much in one’s face, and the fact that refs don’t have eyes on the back of their heads, some degree of self-help is inevitable. I saw the game the other night between the Jets and the FYC, and it was pretty clear that some of the FYC players were deliberately needling some of the Jets players, definitely being provocative, but the refs either didn’t see it, or else there was nothing to call in particular. I guess it was bad luck for the Jets that 2 of their players got sent off, and not the other players who were provoking them.
Which leads on to another point. Cheap shots and fighting can have tactical and strategic purposes. For example, in the game the other night, the ejection of 2 Jets players could be viewed as a good strategic move, since it meant that the Jets should have been really tired with a skeleton team, and the FYCs could have taken advantage of that, but they didn’t (or more likely, couldn’t). There can also be tactical purposes, as in psyching out players on the other side. Fighting can also function to slow the game down, and break the pattern when the game goes against your side. And, of course, it can be used to target the other side’s better players, making them more cautious (or just plain provoking retaliation, getting them sent out of the game).
But often enough at the level of hockey played here, fighting can be just plain dumb, because if sent to the box, your team ends up penalty-killing. Or you have a 4 on 4, and if your team isn’t too strong to begin with (like with the FYCs the other night), you’ll get the worst of it.
Anyway, it seems to me that fighting, for better or worse, goes with the territory, but so long as everyone keeps on their gloves and buckets, nobody should get hurt. One problem we probably have is that there is little player discipline, and that kind of guidance and control should be exerted by coaches, managers and captains.
October 21, 2009 at 10:15 pm #14586Azzy77ModeratorUm just to point out there is a time and place for fighting.
And so far none of the juniors seem to understand the point of hockey is not to go start fights, if the situation arises when you need to fight then do it.If you go into every game expecting or wanting a fight, quit and do MMA or boxing or something
October 21, 2009 at 10:21 pm #14587thirteenMemberha you try keeping the fyc disciplined! thats why older players need to knock them out.
in respect to mrdunedin, yea im pretty fat and slow and the guy was drunk, but i still owned him and got $200 out of him! it was after a thunder game last year, a couple of the team were there to watch, hilarious stuff! its easy to mess up a drunk, you just gotta put them in a restraint, get them to the ground then you spend your time rubbing his face in the dirt and other gross stuff thats on the ground around uni.October 21, 2009 at 10:22 pm #14588thirteenMemberyea theres a fight school opened up on princes street where you can go see how tough you really are
October 21, 2009 at 10:40 pm #14589ChrisMember"thirteen":yj7bep5b wrote:if chris has done what hes claimed to have done then rhys will get his shit wrecked. i did that stuff for a week and yea well its defnitely not an art like karate, its not even about fighting, its about finishing, and finishing so the other guy is in hospital with about 10 seconds of fighting, if that. i suck at it so dont fight me
[/quote:yj7bep5b]This point has been done to death and I’m not going to belabour a point what has come up in other threads before, but yeah, this is more part of the problem than the solution, and I think we saw why the other night. I had no intention of doing anything at all, but when I was pushed to the edge, my instinct took over, and my instinct has been honed in a particular direction, as Blake said. I certainly don’t feel that the altercation has proven anything to anyone, perhaps the way it might have had I simply punched the miscreant’s lights out. While not good, at least that would have been expected.
So, you may as well all know that this incident has me seriously considering whether or not I should be playing hockey at all. The fact of the matter is that Rhys came very close to “getting his shit wrecked” as Blake so eloquently put it, and that’s not what anyone signs up for when they come to play a game of hockey.
October 21, 2009 at 10:56 pm #14590thirteenMemberim pretty sure thats what they signed up for, they try to do it to everyone else so they must expect to receive what the wish to give so generously
October 22, 2009 at 12:30 am #14591imported_RyanMemberAnyone wanting to avoid fighting should come join the B-grade. Anyone wanting to fight there would probably fall over if they tried so it’s not an issue. I recall being treated as some sort of mobile target by a particular high school team once. Amusingly they tended to take themselves out in the process of trying to body check me ” title=”Cheesy” /> Very funny. Would have been even funnier if they’d tried to swing a punch at me as I’m fairly confident they would have landed on their asses, not due to me retaliating but because they were so unbalanced on their skates!
October 22, 2009 at 1:34 am #14592ActiveMemberEveryone should just chill out and remmember you are playing to have fun. If you dont want to have fun, go play for thunder
October 22, 2009 at 1:59 am #14593imported_RyanMemberLOL
October 22, 2009 at 2:24 am #14594thirteenMemberahaha! ouch! i had fun, except for when we lost…
October 22, 2009 at 3:41 am #14595vpatrolMember"Kyle":2h7eoimj wrote:"vpatrol":2h7eoimj wrote:no but the game is for the players. Minor hockey is controlled by the parents/admins etc. Until you get a consensus of the adult players saying we want fighting out of the game, how can you impose that on them? “We know you are adults and everything and you don’t mind fighting in hockey but we have decided that you can’t make that decision for yourselves and to be honest it’s easier for us to tell you what to do instead of educating kids to respect others and play fair”
[/quote:2h7eoimj]This situation isn’t different from rugby at all.
And the reality is, it’s one sport. Youth players emulate senior players – particularly the top level ones. As this topic demonstrates, ‘fighting code’ and this element of hockey culture doesn’t start at senior hockey, youth players pick it up as teenagers, sometimes younger.
Rugby made a decision that the whole sport had to be cleaned up, because telling people to not to do it at one age, but then telling the top level guys it’s OK doesn’t work. Again, no sport works that way.
[/quote:2h7eoimj]I think its very different than rugby. On top of that, the top level of the game doesn’t want it changed. They don’t see a problem with it. When one faction sees a problem sees a problem and the other side doesn’t, what happens is status quo. Fighting stays because pros want it.
By fighting I am talking about proper fighting. No stick swinging, no elbows to faces, no sucker punches. Simple straight forward fights. Lots of people on this forum I think are defending it for the wrong reasons too. Firstly they are the “gonna run my mouth, cheap shot and skate away kind” and they don’t play the game with any integrity. I think fighting can be done “cleanly”. I have no confidence clean fighting will happen in DIHL based on current players but I feel it has a place in the game. Historically is one defence but simple desire to keep it in because of what it accomplishes is another. However I can understand someone who didn’t grow up around it and parents who have had no exposure to that culture would find it a negative stain on the sport.
October 22, 2009 at 3:47 am #14596vpatrolMember"Hockey_Goon":3fmah81j wrote:Kyle im sick of yourtrying to pussy up hockey it ridicoulus. You should be playing darts or something like [u:3fmah81j]thirteen[/u:3fmah81j] said if two player drop the gloves and go at it hard and change the game causae your not man enough to play it the way it was inteeded. Its an insult to the history of the game! [/quote:3fmah81j]
Not every player needs to or wants to fight. Gretzky fought once in 20 plus years and it looked liked a spastic swinging of arms. Was he not man enough to fight? Was every great player to not fight simply not man enough? garbage. If Kyle doesn’t want to fight in a game, nothing wrong with that. There are maybe 2 or 3 people on this forum who have actually been in a hockey fight. Too many people being tough guys on the ice and on the forum! I don’t want to see fights all game long. I’d rather the 60 minutes not include anything that starts a fight. I’d rather play hockey but if its required, ok. Huge difference!
October 22, 2009 at 4:00 am #14597AnonymousInactivewell maybe the reffs should turn a blind eye on the fyc and let them stand there own ground im sure this would work if it was for only one game? i knew he would be drunk blake. typical.
October 22, 2009 at 4:09 am #14598thirteenMemberhaha there you go ref for tuesday. let it roll. im out to win that game coz i refuse to come last so im not looking for a fight, thats to you little boys who think i might like a tango.
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