Kyle

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  • in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14541
    Kyle
    Member

    OK. How’d your team go this last two seasons Blake? Too many pansies in the team? I suspect it wasn’t a lack of desire to win that led to two wins over two seasons.

    The reality is that winning games involves many factors that no one can control. Dunedin U13s have won the last 50 straight games in the southern region. We have the best group of kids by a long shot in any club. Every time we go on the ice we work hard to motivate the kids and play well, setting targets that are more than winning the game. Their last game of the season their goal was to help the members of the team that hadn’t gotten a goal all season score. Not only did they do that very well, they played their best individual and team hockey I saw all year. 23-0 final score, no shots on goal.

    Our U16s have spent the last two seasons travelling to umpteen tournaments to play the same two teams. They always beat the combined Gore/Alex team, they always lose to the Queenstown team. The margins for each game tends to be 6 – 10 every time.

    The past couple of seasons the Beasts played all through the southern region in SNC. They hardly won a game, but they played reasonable hockey and they represented the club well. They seemed to have a hell of a lot of fun.

    In none of these teams is there any evidence that a lack of a desire to win holds the team back. Any time you give a kid an ice hockey top with the club’s name on it and put them on the ice, they’re going to skate hard. We work to appoint coaches with the brains to make intelligent decisions about how to approach a situation. When is a good time to give a backup goaltender ice time, when to put a third line on the ice, when to rest the best players, when to tell players to change their tactics to make a game about something other than winning, or more than winning, or indeed get something valuable out of a loss. These aren’t tactics that are exclusive to us, they’re used by amateur and professional sporting organisations all over the world.

    In short, I didn’t put ‘winning games is important’ in the code because I think it’s redundant. It’s always the thing that people want to do most when they approach a sport. Reminding them of the other reasons why people play the game seemed to be more important. The code isn’t something that we’d smack players over the hand with after they came off the ice, telling them that they didn’t play for the love of the game enough, it’s about indicating to many kids, lots of whom hardly ever win a game in a season, and lots who hardly ever lose, that there’s other reasons to play, and play hard.

    It’s also a recognition in the club that there will be teams like the Bullfrogs in the B DIHL, who haven’t looked like winning a game so far. I’d hope they’d still finish the DIHL having played hard, learnt to be better players, and enjoyed themselves, and that they’d come back for more next year.

    Again, this sort of clause appears in a lot of international codes for slightly different reasons than we have here. Overseas its not uncommon for parents and other people associated with a player to push them to play a game they’re good at for reasons that aren’t about individual or team performances, or about winning. Then you get players playing for the scout in the stand rather than to play good hockey and win the game.

    And I should point out a draw isn’t the same as a loss. A draw is one point, a loss is zero points.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14537
    Kyle
    Member

    There isn’t an existing code of conduct. Some other associations have them, SIHL has one for its rep teams, NZIHF has one for its rep teams, and also other events that it runs – development camps have them for example. Auckland offered theirs to us as a model, but if Chris thought this draft was hand-wringing, he should try theirs.

    The board (committee then) discussed it last year and thought it would be a good idea, right now we’re beginning work on things for next season. We still think it’s a good idea, so we’ve developed a draft so that the members can have a look at it and provide feedback.

    As I’ve said, it’s a guide to expected levels of behaviour. Currently behaviour wouldn’t meet some of these standards. In some that’s probably no biggie. In others I’d suggest that the board wouldn’t be happy with that, and the code is part of the process of trying to raise those standards. We have to be clear about those standards if we’re then going to expect people to meet them. It’s a buy-in process from members, hence putting it before the AGM.

    I’m going to guess that you haven’t read the constitution Rhys. It’s here:

    http://dunedinicehockey.hellyer.kiwi/documents … ution1.pdf

    There’s no requirement for this to be advertised for consultation, consulted, or even agreed by members. Despite this fact, we’re doing all three of these things, as we’d like to set a code that members think is a fair standard, and that requires some buy in from them.

    As for alcohol, it would always be the referees who would enforce this. If a player was drunk, the referee would be the person to direct them from the ice. The code simply highlights this fact for everyone.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14535
    Kyle
    Member
    "Chris":2w8f1pkc wrote:
    [quote:2w8f1pkc]I’m not sure what is controversial about 7, if someone wants to provide an example where people should model bad behaviour that the club would be in favour of.[/quote:2w8f1pkc]

    What’s controversial about 7 is that you’re writing a code of conduct which tells [b:2w8f1pkc]grown adults[/b:2w8f1pkc] who don’t even play hockey how to conduct themselves.
    [/quote:2w8f1pkc]

    The code outlines expected standards of behaviour by DIHA members and their parents in the case of youth members. It’s put in front of them at the beginning of the season so it’s entirely clear what behaviour we’d like ice hockey in Dunedin to involve.

    If, for example, a parent was to start abusing a referee, they would be asked to stop. If they didn’t, they would be told to leave. Both these things happened this season. In that example the code isn’t introducing anything new, the referee already had that power and used it properly. The code just puts it in front of those people at the beginning of the year and reminds them of it.

    The numbered sections of the code aren’t particularly empowered themselves (the section below that on the club policies are empowered, hence the mention of disciplinary action). They’re more a list of expectations. We’d like players, parents (where applicable), coaches, and officials to work towards them (whatever the final version ends up looking like).

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14531
    Kyle
    Member
    "Ryan":3exj9omn wrote:
    I didn’t read it properly the first time.

    "Chris":3exj9omn wrote:
    [quote:3exj9omn]1.  Play hockey for a love of the game above all other things.

    5.  Support all players to do their best and not criticising them for their mistakes.

    7.  Provide a good example for fellow parents and players in their behaviour.[/quote:3exj9omn]

    [/quote:3exj9omn]

    Chris has a good point, although those maybe good things for people to do, they should be allowed to play hockey for whatever reasons they feel like. And why would you not criticise someone for their mistakes? I do that all the time and it would be pretty annoying if no one is allowed to help other players because of the code of conduct.
    [/quote:3exj9omn]

    If you have suggestions for alternative wording, lets hear them.

    1 is fairly standard across most youth codes of conduct that I’ve read, and I read about 10 or 12 from various places around the world. The underlying message would be that people should play the sport because they enjoy it firstly, any other reason comes second. Here the meaning would most likely be interpreted to be putting winning second, but internationally it has a lot more to do with parental and other pressures on youth hockey players in front of professional and other scouts. A lot of 12, 13 year olds in North American come under pressure for get selected to team tracks which lead to midgets, juniors, and therefore drafting by a pro team.

    5 should be interpreted as negative criticism.

    I’m not sure what is controversial about 7, if someone wants to provide an example where people should model bad behaviour that the club would be in favour of.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14530
    Kyle
    Member

    I should say, I welcome constructive feedback. If you’re going to fill it with swearing Chris, and attack me, I’m not really interested in whatever content you manage to squeeze in around that.

    I wrote a draft code because the Board wanted one in place for next season, and I wanted a draft written now so that it could go out for feedback for members prior to the AGM. I didn’t do it for anyone’s entertainment, including my own.

    The alternative was to just put it to the board, which would probably have led to a code which the membership was less happy with. But if you don’t want to be consulted, up to you.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14522
    Kyle
    Member

    I might change that senior alcohol to: “immediately before or during games and practices”. That would remove the off ice activities, of which there’d be very few that we’d be concerned about anyway.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14518
    Kyle
    Member

    Well I’m not banning anything, the reason it would be going to the AGM would be for the club to sign up to it as a whole. If the members wanted to alter it or remove something, they could before it got approved.

    It’s not really a question of whether we can’t do anything. If the club chose to ban drinking during games, we’d just instruct managers and referees to send a player from the ice if they were drinking or drunk. It’s a question of what we want to be in the code and what we don’t want to.

    in reply to: Forum usage #14420
    Kyle
    Member

    I think it’d be good if you could encouraged to add a NHL team to your picture and name on the left of posts.

    That way we could abuse each other when our team beat their team, if you know what I mean.

    in reply to: NZ U18 & U20 squads named. #14496
    Kyle
    Member

    Umm, I guess so.

    PLAYER POS TEAM
    Andrew Hay D BSW
    Mitchell Oak D CRD
    Richard Idoine D BSW
    Daniel Nichols D CRD
    Hayden Argyle D STP
    Blake Jackson D WAA
    Lyle Idoine D BSW
    Lukas Birgel D BSW
    Ryan Paskell D CRD
    Corey Down D WAA
    Charlie Huber F BSW
    Jordan Challis F BSW
    Joshua Hay F BSW
    Ryan Ruddle F CRD
    Jamie Moore-Carter F STP
    Adam Soffer F CRD
    Christopher Eaden F CRD
    Dale Harrop F CRD
    Paris Heyd F CRD
    Stefan Speck F CRD
    Sam Boniface F BSW
    Braden Lee F STP
    Brett Speirs F STP
    Simon Glass F STP
    Martin Lee F BSW

    GOALKEEPERS TEAM
    Mike Parsons WAA
    Zak Nothling BSW
    Justin Findlay CRD
    Rick Parry WAA

    I’ve already had words to the selector about Rick Parry’s listed team.

    Schedule includes:

    camp in Dunedin in the buildup to the NZIHF development camps (15 – 18, after which the team is named), Christchurch Waitangi weekend, back in Dunedin 25 – 28 February, Auckland 19 – 22 March and then leaving for Europe on 1 April.

    There’s also a south island and north island regional camp late November early December (Queenstown and Auckland).

    in reply to: NZ U18 & U20 squads named. #14494
    Kyle
    Member

    There’s a few players in the IBs squad who have apparently retired or ruled themselves out. Corey Down, Hayden Argyle.

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14516
    Kyle
    Member
    "Azzy77":2w9zhlnl wrote:
    "Kyle":2w9zhlnl wrote:
    The Dunedin Ice Hockey Association expects senior members to display a healthy respect for alcohol, which is banned immediately before or during on or off-ice activities. Any member who is found in breach of this policy faces disciplinary consequences.

    [/quote:2w9zhlnl]

    Isn’t there beer avaliable during DiHL?
    [/quote:2w9zhlnl]

    On and off-ice activities might require further definition to be clear. The intent is, no alcohol before or during games or similar activities (team meetings, off-ice training sessions).

    Drinks after the game in the changing room or warm area will still be allowed (indeed, sometimes encouraged).

    in reply to: Re: DIHA: Code of Conduct Consultation #14515
    Kyle
    Member
    "Active":2m19j6ml wrote:
    Seems pretty good to me but I dont think playing hockey for the love of the game is a behaviour. They can have an expectation to play for the love of the game
    [/quote:2m19j6ml]

    I’d say “playing hockey” in a particular way is a behaviour.

    re: Qualified coaching.

    If a team doesn’t have a coach, it’s the club’s job to find them one. I should point out, this relates to club rep teams and all practices. It wouldn’t include social hockey for example, but it would include the new premier league we’re trying to get going.

    Qualified – this is defined by the NZIHF in their NCAP coaching document. Basically any local or international coaching qualification qualifies you for local stuff.

    in reply to: NZ U18 & U20 squads named. #14493
    Kyle
    Member

    Richard is in the ice blacks squad which came out today I think. And their schedule leading up to the world champs. Not up on the web site yet.

    in reply to: Jets vs. Stars – DIHL 29.09.09 #14486
    Kyle
    Member

    Heh.

    When there’s only two guys on the ice with stripey tops, and in half the photos you still can’t tell if that’s you, you know the camera is a problem <img decoding=” title=”Wink” />

    in reply to: Dunedin Ice Hockey League Spring 2009 #13850
    Kyle
    Member
Viewing 15 posts - 496 through 510 (of 1,865 total)